A reality check on fiscal cliffs
December 6, 2012 at 10:21 am in News by Dustin Siggins 38 Comments
In Washington, politicians and pundits alike are pretending panic over the coming “fiscal cliff.” As they typically do, they are treating the “cliff” like a game, albeit one they won’t see an effect from, protected as they are by the Beltway Bubble.
Unfortunately, this “cliff” is a distraction from the real disaster coming down the pike. As Cato’s Dan Mitchell pointed out in a recent column, this fiscal cliff pales in light of the big one we’ll see in a few years:
The real crisis is the ticking time bomb of entitlement programs and the welfare state.
This bomb won’t explode this year or next year. It may not even explode for another 20 years. But at some point America will experience a Greek-style fiscal collapse if these programs are not reformed.
It’s a simple matter of math due to an aging population. According to both the Bank for International Settlements and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the future burden of US spending will climb so high that we’ll be in worse shape than Europe’s welfare states.
Worse than Spain, worse than Italy, worse than France. Our long-run fiscal outlook is even worse than the situation in Greece, according to those international bureaucracies.
Of course, we all know tax increases won’t work to solve the problem, as Mitchell outlines:
Some politicians claim this huge, baked-into-the-cake expansion of government isn’t a problem, because we can raise taxes. But that’s exactly what Europe’s welfare states tried — and it didn’t work.
Simply stated, even huge tax hikes won’t stem the flow of red ink in the long run if government keeps growing faster than the private economy.
This is the fiscal problem that demands attention. Absent real entitlement reform, such as block-granting Medicaid to the states, the burden of government spending will consume ever-larger shares of our economic output with each passing year.
It won’t matter if politicians enact Obama’s class-warfare tax hikes. It won’t matter if they hike payroll taxes on the middle class. It won’t even matter if they impose the value-added tax, which is a European-style national sales tax. So long as government spending grows faster than the private sector, it’s just a matter of time before international investors pull the plug and stop buying our debt.
In Washington, the parties pretend the system is broken because they can’t get along. Never mind they both have expanded the size and scope of government in the last 12 years, simply switching partisan language when it suits the respective parties.
In the end, the Tea Party will be proven correct – either Washington will shape up and America will blossom once again, or the nation’s debt will take America to the path Greece is on. We hope it will be the former, but it will take a resounding effort from the grassroots to make that hope reality.
All according to the marxist plan.
Exactly right. When the disaster strikes, the catastrophe the big-government politicians created will be used as justification for the government taking control of everything.
Anyone who can do the simplest accounting can predict this catastrophe.
The only question is, which ideology will take control of everything? Anyone who doesn’t realize that the Democrats are instituting Marxist ideology with the intent of eliminating the Constitution and creating a totalitarian communist state is ignorant of the definition of Marxism and has never read the Constitution and compared it to what is happening in our government today.
The Republican leadership seems to be compliant with that plan, assuming they will be included within the governing elite society and excused from the poverty-stricken Marxist existence.
That has never happened in any case when Marxists took control of a government. All opposing elements were purged. There is no reason to believe the United States will be the first exception in history to this recurring event.
We need new leadership in Congress.
Paul Ryan should be the next Speaker of the House.
Exactly right. When the disaster strikes, the catastrophe the big-government politicians created will be used as justification for the government taking control of everything.
Anyone who can do the simplest accounting can predict this catastrophe.
HOW CAN WE ENCOMPASS YOUNG AND OLD ALIKE TO BRING ABOUT REFORM OF POLITICS AS USUAL ? CAN WE REGISTER (AS A VOTER ) WITH TEA PARTY AFFILIATION? MAYBE TO START IF NUMBERS WOULD GROW AND STRONG ENOUGH UNITY IN PARTY THERE WOULD BE ENOUGH SUPPORT FOR A NON TEA PARTY CANDIDATE (THAT WAS CLOSER TO TEA PARTY BELIEFS) TO INFLUENCE ELECTIONS AND SUPPORT CANDIDATES THAT FAVOR TEA PARTY BELIEFS. BUT HOW TO CROSS ALL OF THE BARRIERS THAT WERE LAID OUT LAST ELECTION . RACE,GENDER SEXUALITY,NATIONALITY,AGE, PROSPERITY,VALIDITY OF CONSTITUTION, (I’M SURPRISED THAT THEY REFRAINED FROM RELIGION AS ANOTHER DIVIDE AND CONQUER TACTIC). HOW DO WE FIND A WAY TO REUNITE PEOPLES OF THESE GROUPS THAT IS STRONG ENOUGH TO WITHSTAND ANOTHER ATTACK LIKE THE LAST?
All dissenter’s posts were ravaged and burned from this board, while the TP members get to spew hatred and anger.
Ex: suzy’s, ex: mine, ect. when we were just trying to get the truth out
I haven’t been here long enough to deny or verify. However, I’ve had plenty of my comments deleted from liberal sites. Care to comment on that?
AS POSTED ON ANOTHER BLOG I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY OTHER SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS , IT SEEMS TO ME LESS VACATION TIME FOR THE PRESIDENT AND OTHER CONGRESSIONAL ELECTED OFFICIALS AND APPOINTED OFFICIALS COULD ADD UP TO SIGNIFICANTLY LESS GOVERNMENT TAXPAYERS DOLLARS SPENT. I HAVEN’T SEEN ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR CUTTING THE PRIVATE RETIREMENT PLANS WHICH COVER ALL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES. I HAVEN’T SEEN THE MOST OBVIOUS TAX, CALLED A campaign tax in which all campaign contributions and free news blogs or stories , disguised as news but end up being candidate support, are subject to 90% tax used to pay down the national debt. what better way to limit the bs we put up with in the last election. stop the divide and conquer tactics and recognize them for what they are . unite and save this country. before its too late. race war, gender war, sexual preference war, nationality war, surprised we didn’t see religion also used . PATHETIC WHAT WE HAVE DEGRADED TO.
Go off the cliff boys as you all a bunch of x rated movie stars . None of you have the intelligence to punch your way of a paper bag.
WHAT INTELLIGENCE DO YOU BRING TO THE TABLE? THIS IS BOTTOM LINE SS AND MEDICARE REFORM . ARE YOU INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO SEE IT FOR WHAT IT IS OR ARE YOU MORE INTERESTED IN STIRRING UP MORE DIVISION OF THE VOTERS. SO ESTABLISHED POLITICIANS CAN CONTINUE POLITICS AS USUAL? WHAT IS YOUR DIVISION PLATFORM IS IT RACE? IS IT PARTY AFFILIATION ? IS IT AGE? IS IT GENDER? IS IT SEXUAL PREFERENCE? IS IT WEALTH? OR ARE YOU GOING TO BE THE ONE TO BRING UP RELIGION? DIVIDE AND CONQUER, OR UNITE AND BRING ABOUT TRUE REFORM
Correctly:
“Go off the cliff, boys, like you are all a bunch of x-rated movie stars. None of you have the intelligence to punch your way out of a paper bag.”
I’m not sure what analogy you are referencing when you refer to “x-rated movie stars” going over some proverbial cliff. And, the proverbial paper bag we need to punch our way out of is the obvious disaster coming if the government continues along the path it’s currently on.
If you are receiving benefits from the government today, those benefits will go away because….
Money doesn’t grow on trees, and there is no plan to gather continued revenue after the existing assets have been seized as revenue for the government. In case you haven’t figured it out, seizing assets for tax revenue is analogous to being in such a deplorable condition the only alternative is canibalism.
There is only a finite amount of assets to be seized. After all the assets are seized, there are no more revenue sources. Just having to discuss economic canibalism should indicate to you how close to disaster we actually are.
Just curious Violet, to whom, exactly are you directing your statement? Your intended target is a little vague.
Are you a paper bag? Let’s test your theory SEIU style.
Violet, you couldn’t be more wrong.
Your basic premise, that it takes intelligence to do what is in fact an instinctive reflex, could only be dreamed up by a product of a “progressive” education. Not only did they fail to teach you to think critically, they actually inhibited your ability to learn and replaced it with a childish belief in your feelings.
Reading her sentence structure and the missing words and poor grammar, I find it humorous that she speaks to intelligence.
No more debt. Not for any reason.
Congress has to grow up and live within its means. The means are defined by the existing revenue. If Congress thinks it needs more money, then increase the number of people being taxed. As it currently exists, half the population is paying all the income tax collected. EVERYONE should pay their fair share of the government the majority voted for.
We need to draw a line in the sand. Either cut spending to something the economy can actually afford, or increase the number of people paying taxes.
Let’s see how everyone votes when they have to actually pay for what they vote for.
We need new leadership in Congress.
Paul Ryan should be the next Speaker of the House.
Taxing beyond earnings and into the finite amount of existing assets is the latest Democrat proposal for revenue to the government. This is economic canibalism.
Money doesn’t grow on trees, and there is no plan to gather continued revenue after the existing assets have been seized as revenue for the government. In case you haven’t figured it out, seizing assets for tax revenue is analogous to being in such a deplorable condition the only alternative is canibalism.
There is only a finite amount of assets to be seized. After all the assets are seized, there are no more revenue sources. Just having to discuss economic canibalism should indicate to you how close to disaster we actually are.
Realistically, we don’t need to be block-granting anything. We need to actually recognize things like Social Security and Medicare for the ill-advised ponzi schemes that they are and phase them out. Return all of the money allegedly in those “accounts” to the rightful owners (the people the money was confiscated from) and let them invest in whatever private retirement and insurance plans they like. Then we need to repeal the 16th Amendment and return all of the usurped powers currently held by the federal government (primarily enabled by their control of the purse strings) to the States and the People as required by the Constitution. It’s the only real way out of this mess. And of course it’s not going to happen.
No baggers. Not now. Not ever.
Well, then please tell us where the money is going to come from to do what Obama promised?
Where are you goin gto get the money from? It’s a simple question with a simple answer. Anyone who has a plan also has in that plan where the money will come from. So, tell us…
Where is the money going to come from?
If these Corporations would step up and pay their employees a decent wages, Healthcare and offer better retirement that would not be gambled on Wall Street we wouldn’t need these entitlement programs.
How much is a “decent wage”? Is it minimum wage as decried by the gov’t? Is it decided by a union boss? What about the corporation (or privately owned business)? Do they have a say in the matter or do they only exist take all the risk and create jobs for others. If you’ve never been self-employed you’ll never understand.
You can’t just say something like “decent wage” without talking about qualifications and worth to the economy. Our education system is the most expensive in the world and generates the most ignorant workforce in the industrialized world. There is a cost upon the employer to educate a product of that disfunctional education wywtem to a point where they can help the company compete in what is, in reality, a global competition.
If you want to get more, become worth more. If the system is failing you, take it upon yourself to make yourself worth more to the economy.
Who are these so called Americans who do not follow the Constitution? Either you do, or you don’t.
You don’t have to look very far into Obama’s tenure in the White House to find an example.
A law is exactly what is written in the text passed by Congress adn became law in accordance with the prodedure written in the Constitution. After the legislation has become law, no entity has the authority to change it by introducing additions or limitations.
Let me repeat that:
After the legislation has become law, no entity has the authority to change it by introducing additional restrictions. In short, only Congress can write law.
If a person were actually qualified to be something like, oh, for example, a goddam professor of law at the University of Chicago Law School, they would know this basic fact.
A few days after taking office Obama signs an executive order creating a restriction in the so-called Affordable Care Act.
The president does not have that authority…. that is, according to the Constitution.
Either Obama is ignorant of what is in the Constitution, or he is an enemy of the Constitution. One, or the other is true here.
Which is it?
Entitlement programs need to be cut. Welfare needs reform. Welfare as it is now is multi-generational. Tax credits should be eliminated. Taxes need to be simplified and fair. A flat percentage without loop hole.
A great place to start cutting is Washington DC from the president down to the freshman congressman. Too many perks. Let them lead by example.
as i heard one say the only thing that balancing the budget and paying down the deficit would do is to allow gov officials to start with a new credit card with unlimited credit limit . until we stop our elected officials from pork barrel politics and kickbacks and paybacks for large campaign contributions it would only be a matter of time til we repeat current events.
If we institute a flat tax system where EVERYONE pays for the cost of government, then everyone would vote with more sense. That, by itself, would eliminate the faction that wants to eliminate the Constitution and institute an unconstitutional all-powerful government.
We already have the president issuing edicts directly to the population as if he can write his own laws. And, Congress acts like money grows on trees. What they are actually doiong is taking money that doesn’t exist yet from people who haven’t been born yet. There doesn’t appear to be anyone to stand up for the rights of the future population of the United States. That is a serious problem.
Unless the GOP supports the Tea Party we should start a new party and dump the GOP. We need much lower taxes and less spent on the poor and the old. Mexicans should all be deported at once. The poor should be moved to old military camps to get them out of cities
Somehow you don’t sound like a conservative. More like a liberal being “clever”.
I have to agree that although the fiscal cliff is alarming for the short term effect on the economy. If Gov’t is allowed to continue on this path of unprecidented growth and spending the result in the long term are down right frightening. Back in the 90′s they were predicting that the funding for SS and Medicare would be gone by 2025 and that appears to be where we are headed. We need to deal with the current issues as they come via phone calls and e-mails ect. to our leaders but not take the focus on the long term objective of returning this country to the people.
The GOP is dumping us in the House. We need to have a second Tea Party wave with people on the streets and on the news. We need to get moving again
Anyone here Libertarian?
“Anyone here Libertarian?” – I dunno Jerry…. anyone here making believe he’s a conservative but is actually a typical liberal with a subpar IQ?
I hate to break the news to some of you, but it is not the fact that we are heading for a fiscal cliff that is the root problem; the root problem is that many Americans and government officials feel we have a moral obligation to take care of the poor and the disenfranchised in our society, and they are willing to force this on others at the point of a gun. And it doesn’t matter if you have this view as a religionists touting God and Heaven Above or if you are a Marxist touting a Greater Society, the problem is that there is no such moral obligation — not if you take man’s life and individualism seriously. In other words, if one thinks his own life is important enough to fight for and to live for, then one will not accept the notion that one is responsible for everyone else’s problems — financial or otherwise. However, so long as the Conservatives believe that they do have a moral obligation to the poor and the disenfranchised, no, they are not going to save us from the fiscal cliff. After all, what is going broke compared to upholding one’s moral duty? If you don’t have the right to your own earnings, then why posture that you ought to keep at least some of it for your own sake? And why shouldn’t government force you to uphold your moral duty?
It is questions like these that need to be asked, not how much are we going to spend.
The primary problem is that too many people have accepted an irrational morality not based on the facts of reality. Each individual in a proper society has the right to earn his own money and to keep it to spend on himself and his loved ones; and no one else has a right to it and especially does not have any proper moral or societal authority to take it away from you to spend it on someone else not of your own choosing. To make a man pay for the suffering and poverty of another is to make him a slave of that other, and this is what has to be questioned. If we do not confront issues like these, then going broke is the price we will pay for having ideals not connected to man’s factual nature and his right to live his own life free of others.
Thomas, I believe it is a moral obligation but not a legal one. The government should have no part in it. When the people of the US no longer feel the choke-hold of the IRS they will give freely to charity. This is not to be confused with mandatory redistribution of wealth. Rather it is a voluntary act of kindness towards those the giver feels are worthy recipients. Under president Reagan charitable contributions skyrocketed. Why? Because he cut taxes.
While no one has ever justified the idea that we are morally obligated to help those in need, just based on their need, I am not against voluntary charity, so long as it is not self-sacrificial and so long as the charitable donation is made in support of one’s values. In other words, if one wants to fight cancer or help hurricane victims or rescue animals in shelters etc., there is nothing wrong with this so long as you are not supporting those who are against your own life and giving. Nothing wrong with open benevolence and wanting ti help someone get back on their feet when they have hit a rough spot in life through no fault of their own.
However, I think it must be understood that politics and what a government ought to do is dependent on one’s conception of morality. Under the morality I accept — the Objectivist Ethics, created by Ayn Rand — it is moral to live one’s own life and to prosper and to seek gains in all activities of life where one can by mutual trade to mutual advantage (you buy groceries, your grocer gets paid for it). With this basis, the only role of government is to protect one’s life and property and to defend oneself against physical attacks and fraud. It is not the job of the government to provide services to those who are not being very successful in their life at the expense of others, especially the tax payer.
I don’t know if this forum permits outside links or not, but if defending the individual is paramount — as it was to the Founders — then individual rights are the central focus of proper government:
http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=arc_ayn_rand_man_rights
My Dear Fellow Patriots,
The Founding Fathers warned us that this time would come.
As Benjamin Franklin was leaving the Pennsylvania Statehouse in September 1787, a woman in the street said to him, “Sir, what have you given us?” As the story goes, Franklin replied, “A republic, madam, if you can keep it.”
What an ominous warning. The election on November 6th would seem to indicate that the Republic is indeed slipping away.
Fortunately, they also told us the number one threat to the existence of the Republic, and what we could do about it.
“If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the high seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.” –Samuel Adams
Mr. Narcissism is still in The White House for four more years of fundamentally transforming the country. Harry Reid is still in the Senate. Nancy Pelosi is still in the House. These three are the epitome of “vain and aspiring.” They are the freedom destroyers that Abraham Lincoln spoke of:
“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
What shall our reaction be? What shall we say and do?
“These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.” –Thomas Paine
Now is the time to double down. We need to follow the model of the signers of The Declaration of Independence. We need to “pledge our lives, our fortunes, and sacred honor” to save the Republic.
Let us start by abandoning the notion that we can infiltrate the Republican Party and transform it from the inside into a party defending life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have tried that for three and a half years, to no avail.
There really is only one political party in The United States: The Progressive Big Government Party. There is the (big “P”) Progressive Democratic Branch and the (little “p”) progressive Republican Branch. They both believe government is the answer: more programs, more spending, more central planning and control. They resemble each other more than either one resembles the Founding Fathers.
A NEW POLITICAL PARTY is an idea whose time has come. Get over the notion that there is any other solution.
The Republican Party is today’s Whig Party. It must go. The Democratic Party is today’s Socialist/Communist Party. It needs to go.
On July 4th, 2009, a small group of concerned patriots formed an Ohio non-profit corporation. After all, “With God all things are possible.” We have grown beyond those humble beginnings. Many similarly minded patriots have joined our efforts. The corporation has undergone several permutations to become:
The American Legacy Party
Go to our website at:
http://www.AmericanLegacyParty.org
The best way to describe our efforts to date would be to say we have been a think tank, a research center, a test marketer, and a focus group, searching for solutions and the way forward. We hold memberships in other patriotic groups: Tea Party Patriots, Ohio Liberty Council, Voices of America, Patriot Players Guild, and 912. We totally believe in fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government, and free markets.
Additionally, we believe that national political parties and the Federal Government should not be involved in the social, moral, and lifestyle choices of the citizenry. As a party we do not take a stance on abortion, gay marriage, birth control, the legalization of marijuana, or other controversial issues. These are divisive distractions that should be left to individuals, families, churches, local institutions, and State Governments. Decision making on these and other issues should be made at the lowest possible level and not at the highest levels of the Federal Government. Individual candidates and State Parties may take a stand on these issues. At the national level, The American Legacy Party will not attempt to sponsor or pass legislation on these issues with a one size fits all approach from Washington D.C.. The Bill of Rights is very clear that Congress shall make no law abridging the rights of citizens on many of these issues. Laws are currently being written that do just that.
The moral character of people involved in politics and/or running for office should be a factor in their suitability to serve. Personal values and beliefs have been replaced with charisma and star quality as criteria for public service.
We have created a sister organization and a website to showcase our beliefs and worldview.
http://www.TheAmericanLegacyAlliance.org
Both of our websites are under continuous development. We are creating an online community and a crowd sourcing solutions vehicle.
You may reach us via email at Legacy@sssnet.com. Please send us your comments and ideas.
Join us and join John Paul Jones in saying “I have not yet begun to fight.” We are currently looking to fill the positions of County Coordinator. All position above that will be filled from the rank of “Captain”