Obama’s tax stand puts ideology ahead of practicality
November 10, 2012 at 9:31 am in News by Tea Party Patriots 89 Comments

Once again, President Obama is threatening to put ideology ahead of practicality. In his first domestic policy address since his reelection, the President has declared there will be no deal on the so-called “fiscal cliff” starting in January 2013 unless taxes on the richest Americans go up.
Tea Party Patriots know taxing the rich is a useless policy when it comes to fairness or deficit reduction, but here are four points for convincing your friends:
- Raising taxes on the rich have historically trickled down to impact the middle-class. Consider that the individual income tax and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) went from hitting only the wealthy to hitting many middle-class earners, for two prominent examples.
- The top one percent of earners pay 1,500 times the taxes of the bottom 20% of earners. That’s not enough?
- Taxing the rich simply won’t bring in much more tax revenue. The much-ballyhooed “Buffett Rule,” which would hike taxes on the wealthy to 30%, would bring in $47 billion over ten years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation. For a point of comparison, we’ll borrow that much by Thanksgiving. For another point of comparison, if Washington took every dollar from every American earning at least one million dollars annually in 2009, only $235 billion more would come into the federal coffers. This barely covers one-fifth of the Fiscal Year 2012 deficit.
- There are two other, more effective, ways to bring in more revenue to the federal government. The first is to enact tax reform that eliminates loopholes and does some combination of direct deficit reduction and lower rates. The second is to create opportunities for economic growth, which would increase incomes, which would increase money taken in by the federal government. Tax reform would, of course, greatly help create more opportunities for economic growth.
The simple fact is that America’s debt problems were not created by a lack of federal taxation. We must curtail spending, and any policy that fails to address this root cause of our massive debt is either dishonest or lacking simple facts. Since the President has access to some of the best facts available related to the national debt, I know which way I’m leaning…
Correction: This post has two errors: First, it adds all income taxed at 100% to the federal government, neglecting to subtract the 29% of income already paid into the federal coffers. Using the numbers given by Politico in the link in the post, this means only $170 billion would be raised if a 100% tax was implemented, or 15.5% of the 2012 deficit.
However, this calculation only addresses income at one million dollars, not above one million. This information is difficult to find, so for a point of comparison I used a CBO analysis that shows taxing the top 1% of earners (never mind the top .1%, which is what the Politico article focused on) at 100% would bring in about $942 billion more to federal coffers, including taxing income Politico did not consider in its article.
Either way, the point still stands: Raising taxes on the wealthy is inadequate to the task of balancing the budget, and it certainly won’t solve the core problem facing the country in the next generation: massive, irresponsible spending.

A tax hike is pointless in that taxing the people who earn over $1,000.000 dollars would run the government for what 8 days? 10 days? I forgot the figure. Taxing those over $250,000 would run the government what, 8 hours (just a guess?)
News flash:
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-11-09/news/fl-allen-west-court-denied-20121109_1_injunction-bid-absentee-ballots-election-results
Next avenue to legally and peacefully redress the Allen West issue is to call the Florida State Attorney General’s office (if you live in Florida) to investigate voter fraud and get rid of that judge!!!
BTW, I am never calling evangelicals by that name again. “Angels” is a lovely term!! -Imagine if the infighting in the Great Opportunity Party would go behind closed doors? How awesome!
thank you for your post. I am like minded and a new “member” of this site. I will be paying more attention now that my dander is up following this disasterous, but very revealing/shocking election! Godspeed to all with a Patriot heart!! When Obama’s America takes hold these next four years, anyone with a brain will begin to regret where we are headed. It might have taken this slap in the face, TWICE (08 and 12) before the boneheads wake up. Keep praying everyone.
It’s not about raising revenue. Obama knows hiking taxes on the “rich” won’t raise revenue.
It’s about collapsing the economy so they can take over everything.
That is something I’ve said all along
Yes, you are right. This is a tactic used by dictators. Read Hitler’s chapter “Federalism as a Mask”. Obama could possibly be using his “caring” policy to manipulate the poor and achieve increasing power. He’s obviously used manipulation and allegience from, the poor and uneducated, to get votes. Passing out cell phones right before a major election? Not sketchy, NOT sketchy at all…. >.<
Of course that’s it. Obama wants to ‘collapse’ the economy! Brilliant!
Conservative commentator and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol said Sunday the Republican Party should accept new ideas, including the much-criticized suggestion by Democrats that taxes be allowed to go up on the wealthy.”It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” he said on “Fox News Sunday.” “It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer.” For all.of you who worship.at the altar of Fox.News, this is for you.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/11/bill-kristol-taxes-millionaires_n_2113671.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/11/bill-kristol-taxes-millionaires_n_2113671.html
Conservative commentator and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol said Sunday the Republican Party should accept new ideas, including the much-criticized suggestion by Democrats that taxes be allowed to go up on the wealthy.”It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” he said on “Fox News Sunday.” “It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer.”
So far at least 15 states have active petitions to secede from the USA which you can view and sign at:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions
Oh God please, let Texas be successful with this petition!!
The CRS report, by researcher Thomas Hungerford, concluded:The results of the analysis suggest that changes over the past 65 years in the top marginal tax rate and the top capital gains tax rate do not appear correlated with economic growth. The reduction in the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie. However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution. As measured by IRS data, the share of income accruing to the top 0.1% of U.S. families increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% by 2007 before falling to 9.2% due to the 2007-2009 recession. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the top 0.1% fell from over 50% in 1945 to about 25% in 2009. Tax policy could have a relation to how the economic pie is sliced—lower top tax rates may be associated with greater income disparities.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/01/congressional-research-service_n_2059156.html
Now that we’re under a socialist government, isn’t it time for states to seriously consider secession? Conservatives have the right to govern with fiscal responsibility and limited government.
Yes, I would love that. Let’s divide America into conservatives and non-conservatives. those who are wishy washy can go into the non-conservatives pile. Then, we can send them to opposite sides of the country. Hopefully the conservatives will take up residence on MY side as I’m a proud Arizonan and don’t want to move from my Red State that elected Jeff Flake and Joe Arpaio despite the left portraying Flake as a vampire in all their obnoxious ads. The Tea Party Patriots at least give me hope this day, November 11, 2012, when I am quite down in the dumps in the realization that the country consists of more stupid than smart people. Sad!!!
Have at it….you can have Texas.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/01/congressional-research-service_n_2059156.html
Sorry, No Huffington Post allowed. Only Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, or anyone supporting our extreme, right wing, fundamentalist Christian views here! Go post on CNN or MSNBC
Yes, we crazy Tea Party people don’t care if the American voter thinks we’re nuts…we know we are. We are America’s anti-intellectual and anti-science freak show. When sane people see us walking down the street they cross to the other side.
If you join our Party you’ll get an official tin foil hat, a Grover Norquist photo and a decoder ring…pretty cool, huh?
It might be heading in that direction. Just remember what happened last time(Civil War) and howmany brother killed each other. The same would happen again. I don’t want Civil War, I want to reform the country by removing the current sitting polititians by voting them out of office and replacing them with Patriots. After all the Constitution does not give us the right to throw down th egov but the right to redresses of grievances.
How about going after these athletes with mega contracts that pay the $30 million or more a year while our Fire, Police and Military struggle to make ends meet…
You are correct my friend. It is just common sense that our first responders, God bless them, and that includes our military brave men and women…shoudl be getting MAJOR perks and an AWESOME income plus benefits for life. It sucks how they structure our compensation to support the media Katie Courics and Mahers, Michael Moores, obnoxious and useless testosterone-rich athletes who are no longer role models, actors and actresses who are pea brain and big chested and seem to get as much attention as they crave, etc. Sick world, will someone please explain to me how we got into this mess??? Where is the morality of this country? Keep posting, I am rejuvenated to read their are still others out there who are good people with common sense, who care about America!!!!!!!!!
I agree entirely that our people in uniform deserve the best and they are paying athletes too much but when talking about all aspects and the good of the country you have to remind yourself of the revenue brought in by all these sporting events, from the gas to get to the event to the ticket to the bud light they buy because the commercial at home looked good.
As far as everything else goes, people are losing sight and even care for the truth or facts, its becoming so sad. We are becoming a country of takers instead of makers and as this continues, the people needing things will grow and overwhelmingly become takers. Unfortunately it seems the only way to get these people back on track is for those to not receive anymore and will become a reality when it just cannot be sustained anymore. Its like these people are drunks and the only way they will quit voting and supporting idiots like obama is by hitting rock bottom and then they might “sober” up and start their “recovery”. The media will eventually gets whats coming.
I don’t believe in contributing to a class war. Yes, in my opinion athletes make way too much money so the solution is quit watching and supporting professional sports. Don’t send the government after their money. Yes, fire fighters, police and the military the real heroes make too little pay. Government waste too much money on a failed welfare system that traps mutiple generations. They also send way too much money overseas. Spending is the problem. Reduce it.
Why not just try this- “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.”
I know, Karl Marx said that, but, wouldn’t that be “fair”?
Sure. Take that to your family’s level. Let your kids and wife fend for themselves. If they don’t do well in this newfangled fair society, then relegate them without a blink to the white trash bin…I assume you are white or you wouldn’t be in this forum, except for a curiosity purpose.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHNBr3PZQaE
Heaven help us.
If 80% of NFL players and 60% of basketball players are bankrupt within 5 years of retiring, why would you want to stop them from contributing their immense salaries directly to the economy vs. using this money to fund government?
Additionally, your comment reeks of jealousy. These athletes are the spectacle. Why shouldn’t they make the lions share of the profits?
We can’t let these meager tax increases affect our rich puppet masters! We must band together tea parties! How dare they try to take food out of the mouths of our wealthy masters!
If you did that you’d be no different than the President. Besides your comparing the private sector to the public sector. Here’s the difference. Athletes get paid by an industry. It’s called entertainment. They have a right to be successful the same as Donald Trump and Bill gates without worring if the Gov is going to penaltize them. They ar not paid by the Gov, they are paid by the amount of people who pay for tickets to watch games, by the big companies that pay them to advertise their products, and by the sports memorbelia that their team sells.
Firemen, police officers, U.S. military members are all public servants and get paid through tax payers money. It’s not fair to compare the two together. I do however believe it is sad that the athletes get more recognition and fame than do the heroes that protect us on a daily basis. I bet though that if you ask these men, they don’t want to be in the spotlight anyways.
So you want to take money from pro-athletes and give it to first responder
Wait, are you actually advocating wealth redistribution?
Who do you expect to handle this seizure from the private sector?
I knew baggers were dull, but this is a new low.
It’s like you’re confusing your petty ideological wars with your petty culture wars…
My thoughts and several others in our community is , after witnessing the disaster of an election we just had we are thinking that four the next four years we should all work together to build a conservative fund to buy up as many media outlets across the nation as possible . This fund would be owned by all who invest in it open to the public but with a clear mandate to foster and protect America and its conservative values. The goal is to have the media working to build and support the conservative values we all have enjoyed and believe in.
The other thing that just pissed me off is to know we have politicians that talk garbage right before the elections to create controversy
I love it. We have to take over the media becasue we are the only ones who speak the TRUTH. The country deserves the truth. When did the media become so biased? I think Michelle Malkin is brilliant. She is fighting so hard to keep the truth going. God bless her!
I thought you people were supposed to be all about the Constitution. And here you are talking about a scheme to suppress free speech. Your desperation is showing.
Buying up the media and controlling it’s content is an idea the “progressives” had a long time ago.
How does that “suppress free speech”? You think the Constitution guarantees you a free national platform for your speech? And somebody else should be forced to pay for the platform?
How dare you say we are trying to suppress free speech! Fox News has taught us all how to think….I mean what to think. More need to be trained this way! Every news outlet should promote racism and xenophobia by installing the fear of the minorities taking away our rights and replacing Christianity. We don’t need people thinking rationally about issues! We just need anger that someone doesn’t agree with what Fox News wants us to think!!!
You Marxist!!
Birds of feather flock together, so if I watch Foxnews it more likely that I had the same ideaology that Fox has rather than they taught me those ideaologies. To say they taught me is to say I’m not smart enough to come to conclusions on my own. Your way of thinking sounds more like the liberal mind. The American people, who think not using their Gov filled pocket books, are smart enough they don’t need someone telling the what they ought to think.
Fox “News” is a misnomer. It is an entertainment station.
Are you out of your frigging mind! Fox news was the only news available to get both sides of the story. Yes, they lean to the Right but they didn’t just ignore facts going down about Obama that were negative toward him like all the other main stream media stations, and they did report the Romney negatives, often asking themselves what ramifications this statement or that statement would have on his campaign. The mainstream media dwelled on Obama only, sometimes for an entire newscast as if they were campaigning, not reporting the news. This went on day in and day out. They were not the news, they were free press exposure for Obama and his campaign. So don’t come at us with that sarcasm bull.
You are a blind puppet Joey. Fox propagates lies and reinforces its view through fear. Turn off the tv. Read. Think. View your own opinions.
Joey….no sarcasm….just fact.
Even Fox News knows it is entertainment.
“The people at Fox are not stupid,” he said. “They know when they have Dick Morris or one of these other pundits on predicting a landslide victory for Romney, the people behind the scenes know that it’s all bluster. They know that this is sort of an entertainment. They know that a lot of these people are just hucksters … we producers know that this is all a farce. The reason we don’t step in and give a reality check to our audience is because that’s terrible for ratings.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/12/joe-muto-fox-news-mole-farce_n_2119131.html
well it finally happened folks, how’s it feel to be of white euro-trash decent and be a minority in your own country. I know plenty of black guys and gals i grew up with that own businesses, have family and faith. They didn’t vote for the “O”. I grew up in rural fruit and farming country, picking in my own orchards with the Brazeros, the legal, hardworking, independant business folks of latino decent that I know didn’t vote for the “O”. It is the “gimme gang”, white, black, brown, female or just plane confused. The stupid people that know nothing of business or paying the bills. Hey, let the big engine out of the garage, it will create enough wealth to pay for all the current stupid programs. but what I asked after shutting my business down, “why should we?” when on welfare you can make the equivalent to a $40k job in this country just running the phones and hitting a few agencies once a month, why should you do more. How about we just give retirees free healthcare like congress gets? Give retirees a gauranteed half their working salary as retirement, like congress gets? how about we make it mandatory you have to have a job working a minimum 30 hours a week to get any benefits? As a used to be employer I didn’t have to pay benefits until my employees hit 32 hours a week for four weeks in a row? What we need it people that actually know how a business works, or how government works, or some one that actually went to public schools and learn history, civics, how to balance a checkbook, or something useful in life and not how to cheat at tests, where to buy the best dope, and “i want to be an actor”.
the idiots truly are running the asylum
Raising the taxes on those making more than $250,000 annually will have absolutely no affect on the deficit, or debt. It is a cruel joke to suggest otherwise. First, in comparison to our spending levels, the amount to be collected is insignificant. Second, any additional funds brought into the treasury will be spent by this administration before they even arrive? A tax on business owners is a tax on poor and middle-class consumers alike – all of whom will pay higher prices as a result. A continuing problem with this administration is their inability to grasp that no political actions occur in isolation. They believe, for example, that they can reduce Medicare payments to physicians and that this will represent a savings to tax payers. They never consider for a moment, that it will result in fewer physicians accepting Medicare. They believe they can mandate coverages with insurance companies without raising premiums…and they believe they can tax business owners without causing price increases on their goods. Perhaps, it would be more accurate to say that they know all of these things, but believe the American people are too stupid to catch their act. If the Obama administration honestly wished to keep taxes low for small businesses and job providers, they would simply ask the right questions on tax forms and compute the tax accordingly. Since they don’t pursue such a path, it is clear that their purpose is ideological rather than fiscal.
We should go ahead and give them their way. Congress should pass a bill that raises everyone’s taxes from the bottom to the top, they should add another 5% to the corporate tax rate . This bill should also include a measure that prohibits the federal government from having more employees than private sector employees, a pay freeze for all government employees and term limits for the congress and the senate. It should also end all welfare and food stamp programs and close all section 8 housing projects, part of the bill should stipulate any recipient of welfare is ineligible to vote or hold any type of public office for 12 years, include a waiver for states that don’t wish to participate in the affordable health care act (obamacare) and make it a felony to attach any pork barrel projects to all future bills, finally make this bill about three thousand pages long . They won’t read it and the president will probably just sign it then do his little touchdown dance before he realizes it……..
Is the Tea Party Movement based on fiscal conservatism or the battle against Abortion and Gay Marriage? Can someone please answer this question?
In this thread are the following comments:
- a call for media censorship against views the tea party disagrees with
- A belief that the Democrats are trying to purposefully collapse the economy
- A call for the session of the confederate states (which would require violent revolution as this could never win enough votes at a hypothetical reforendum)
- A complete rejection that the rich should not contribute more fairly to society. This view represents a complete lack of acknowledgement that, due to tax loopholes, the rich currently already pay an effective income tax rate that is actually slightly lower than the working classes.
These are the views of fanatics and extremists, and then wonder why you lost the election.
Yours sincerely,
Europe
So on this thread alone I have read that members want to take wealth from private citizens (pro athletes and actors) and give it to government employees (first responders and military), I’ve read that you want to take down other organizations’ web sites (occupywallst), Karen wants to divide the country in 2 so she doesn’t have to hear from anyone who doesn’t think like her and one guy thinks the President is secretly trying to collapse the economy so “they” can take over, and oh yeah, Tia recommends that states ceceed from the Union. Tia, just wondering, which states? So do you wonder why no one listens to you? You have too many crazy people in your ranks, as a collective you seem racist and paranoid, and you attack anyone who doesn’t agree with you — socialist! RINO! Commie! Taker! Muslim! Listen to yourselves, you do hate. Not all of you I’m sure, but the serious and rational among you don’t do enough to quiet the ones that do. And until you do eliminate the hate, paranoia and distortion of facts your vital message is not going to be heard.
Texas Rule – It’s too difficult. These people mentioned in your post caused the Republicans to lose the elections, but sadly, they just don’t see it. They would rather blame the liberal or the media for the loss. Most of these people are radical fundamentalist like the ones in the Middle East we have been fighting. When has forcing your beliefs about religion and gay marriage onto other citizens considered liberty and freedom? It’s just a bunch of bull$hit.
Absolutely well said Texas Rules!! “Take down-separate-divide-name call-fear-distort”. That’s 90% of what I read! As a liberal, I endeavored to browse right wing publications to see if the historical movement of our nation towards progressiveness on several key issues this election (clearly this was NOT simply a second win for the President, although that itself holds major significance) would be met with a broadened and maybe more analytical and introspective scope. Half of the claims and figures being made about welfare,entitlements, etc. are simply finger pointing and false! What actual statistics lead so many of you to make these grand claims about government pocketbooks and socialism? Do you even know what life in a Socialist country is like, and how different it is from ours-even with every policy Obama can put on the table in the next 4 years?!? Did your information come from any federal or scientific agencies? Oh yes, there ARE none-every organization is part of the vast liberal conspiracy to bring the country down MWA-HA-HA-HA….Do you really, actually believe this stuff?? Your organization and increasingly your party has become such a platform for hostility, intolerance, and fear that your valid and worthwhile ideals are cloaked in it, and the rest of the country and a notable portion of the world are seeing you with less and less legitimacy. I’m prepared for you to respond with vile attacks on me and all kinds of stereotypes about my character (hint: I’m a gainfully employed taxpaying American born citizen, I’m post-graduate educated, and I’m a married heterosexual). Which leads me to the point of my post-IT’S STARTING NOT TO MATTER. And it’s time to get rid of the trash; Coulter, Limbaugh, et. all. Bullies never win. They just get humiliated, lose their friends, and stand alone.
When you say- “It’s time to get rid of the trash”, you expose your complete lack of rational arguments against free markets, limited Constitutional government and the rule of law. And of course you also expose your lack of respect for free speech and individual rights.
You just want to kill anyone who doesn’t agree with your “progressive” argument? That HAS been the typical action when “progressives” rule, so I don’t doubt you want to continue along those lines. Talk about “hostility” and “violence”! Is hostility and violence all you have to bring to the discussion?
Craig, you’re just falling back on the boiler plate tea party argument and you’re just being obstinate. The tea party doesn’t have a unified voice and many of the voices of the party are contradictory to their purported underlying mission. I hear views that remove rights and favor Christian sharia. A vote for the Republicans is legitimizing this idiocy.
No party has a “unified voice”. Not even Stalin could produce such a nonsensical thing.
Arguments for individual liberty, free markets and equality under the law predate the Tea Party by many years, as do arguments for limited government, governing by the consent of the People.
If you have some arguments for what you believe might be a better system, you should present them.
Do you have any arguments or theories to present? Concrete ones I mean, not nonsense like “Hope” or “Change” or “Forward”.
Craig, you don’t HAVE to get rid of loons like Coulter and Limbaugh, who are laughing all the.way to the bank by flaming hate and misinformation. It’s just that you SHOULD if you want to remain relevant. Its your choice.
It’s the core principles of the Tea Party that are relevant.
It’s pretty unrealistic to expect that everyone who believes those principles should be somehow all in lock step and espousing exactly the same methods for realizing those ideals.
We all are, after all, individuals.
You can ridicule anyone you want to, for any reason, but it’s the principles and ideals you really fear, and you have no answer for them, other than mockery and force.
On the contrary, I don’t fear change but it’s very obvious you all do. Just look at one of your slogans, “Take Our Country Back.” Back to what…..the 1950″s? None of you have figured out we now live in a global.society……even our economy is dependent upon global trade. You can try to catch up with the rest of the world or stay in your own narrow minded tunnel where you will become increasingly irrelevant. And to even suggest that those who think differently from you are socialist, communist or Marxist is laughable. You obviously don’t understand any of those, yet continue to spout these “labels” in an effort to perpetuate fear. I laugh at the petitions to secede…..go.ahead. Just be sure to educate the citizenry first on what they will be forfeiting……….use of.Federal highways, rivers, ports, forfeiting social security and Medicare, Federal disaster aid, air travel because they don’t want to submit to a damn TSA inspection.for safety,, military care and benefits,.just to name a few. I’m sure that will go over great with the majority of your population. Instead of working to destroy this country why don’t you act like adults and encourage cooperation.and compromise. Anyone who has played any type of team sport realizes that you must work TOGETHER to win a game. It’s basic human interaction 101…..go take a refresher course.
You forgot to mention the proposal to control the media in order to influence the next presidential election.
It’s not much of a secret, and it’s not just the President.
Without going into a long historical dissertation, I’ll just say, people of a collectivist mindset, whatever you call them (let’s say Marxists/”progressives”) have openly vowed to destroy the U.S. and what they see as “evil capitalism” (that’s actually free markets) for over 100 years.
They haven’t just talked about it, they’ve actively worked toward that goal, and they are still working. They take a long view, they think communism will inevitably triumph, they believe Marx’s nonsense about “historical determinism”. They also believe the nonsense that communism will produce an ideal society of ideal people.
Perhaps you think the people who currently control our government, who are quite open about being “progressives” (and not too careful about letting people know they are Marxists and Maoists) are actually trying to save free markets and limited Constitutional government? Can you point out some instances of concrete actions they’ve taken in that direction?
Craig, this is the fundamental problem that you have: You equate progressive and marxist because neither is 100% Laissez-faire economics. That’s like saying Jews, Catholics and Evangelicals are the same because they are all believe in God. Its like calling Gerald Ford a fundamentalist right winger because he is a Republican. Its just incorrect. As long as you fail to distinguish, you will continue to marginalize yourself and the Tea Party.
Being in favor of reasonable regulations and a social safety net, and recognizing the benefit that brings to the entire capitalistic economy is soooo far from being a marxist, or even a socialist, that it is kind of laughable you do not see the difference. In Scandanavia, college and health care are free and taxes are over 60-70%. In England, doctors are government employees. In the US taxes are below 35%, the government helps you borrow money that you are supposed to pay back for your education, and the new NationalRomneyCare program will require that you buy medical insurance from a for profit insurance company that will invest in the stock market, and then pay privately negotiated rates to for profit hospitals, doctors, and pharmacuetical companies. In socialized medicine, all of those people work for the government or are at least “non profit only.”
Yes, we have regulations employers, industry, food manufacturers, and others have to follow, but what do you want, it to be legal to chain employees to the desks during their shift like they do in some countries, have zero inspections of food plants like in China, or for it be legal to dump mercury into rivers? Come on, you know you favor some regulations.
Socialists oppose Obama for being way too pro-capitalistic. And yet you equate prgressive with marxist.
The sad thing is that the Tea Party has some great points to make. Spending is out of control, we should not have a system where almost 1/2 of people pay zero income taxes, we risk having a debt crises, and some regulations do not help and do hurt the economy. There are other points that I disagree with, but are good discussion items like reducing taxes and regulations creates jobs (I don’t agree, but its reasonable).
But if you keep calling everyone who disagree with you a socialist, marxist, taker – not only will they not listen, it prevents you from making an argument for what you believe, it prevents you from finding places where maybe some moderates agree with you, which in a democracy, is kind of important.
It seems funny to me that you would call out conservatives for doing the same things liberals are doing. When they accuse us of hate becasue we don’t agree with things like Homosexuality, or abortion, or the redistribution of wealth (Robin hood mentality – steal from the rich so the poor can continue to sit and do nothing but be poor and suck the money from the rich), or strain our relationship with Israel, refuse to help Americans in Lybia, apologize to the world for America, bow down to the king of Saudi Arabia, force American to buy health insurance they do not want nor can afford, they themselves begin to spew the hate speech at us. This is called hyprocrisy. Judge yourself first before you come to our house and judge us.
Our economic system is mixed, in that it mixes capitalism and socialism. Many in the Tea Party would suffer greatly under pure capitalism. That means no social security, no medicare, no medicaid, no welfare, no public schools, no farm-aid, no subsidized electricity, no free roads, no food for prisoners, and probably no customers for businesses. As the fiscal cliff approaches, wall street is showing it’s hand by admitting that it is a great threat to their businesses. Not the proposed spending, but the lack thereof.
The stock market will tank when the government stops spending. Does anyone doubt that?
Yes I do.I highly doubt that.
If you doubt the fiscal.cliff will bring devastation not to just the government but also to private industry perhaps you should listen to some leaders Actually.in private industry who think otherwise.
http://www.bankrate.com/financing/taxes/ceos-urge-fiscal-cliff-action/
“That means no social security, no medicare, no medicaid, no welfare, no public schools, no farm-aid, no subsidized electricity, no free roads, no food for prisoners, and probably no customers for businesses.”
Barry, the programs you mention above, medicare, medicaid, welfare, public schools, farm-aid and subsidized electricity have all been disastrous failures, not just in the U.S., but everywhere around the world that they have been implemented.
Because of government intervention in what should be free markets, our medical costs have skyrocketed,a permanent underclass of never working “poor” has been created, our public schools are the laughingstock of the world, family farms have all but disappeared (and the taxpayers subsidize huge corporate agri-business), and people are being subsidized to buy the product of heavily controlled, huge, quasi-public industries.
The last historic event where massive government spending and control of our economy was suddenly stopped was at the end of WWII. Millions were suddenly thrown out of work at the same time. Private industry lost the majority of their government contracts and were left with physical plants and tooling geared for war production.
What happened? For the first time since the Federal Reserve and the federal government teamed up to create and prolong the great depression, our economy started to grow, jobs were created (by private action) at a fast and growing rate, family incomes went up, the nation prospered. Growth and prosperity continued for a long time.
Now, after the government and the Federal Reserve engineered a massive bubble in our housing market, and did everything exactly wrong when the bubble inevitably burst, we have seen a loss of private wealth on a scale not seen since the great depression.
Do you really think a centrally planned and controlled economy is going to make anything better? Why will it work here when it has failed so disastrously every where else it’s been tried?
I forgot to mention Medicaid. Did you know there’s scientific evidence that people who get NO medical care at all are healthier than those who are on Medicare? Real scientific evidence, not the type of phony junk stuff our government ginned up to use for second hand smoke and global warming.
Sorry, that should be Medicaid in both instances above.
Where is this scientific evidence? Please provide a link or name of this scientific study. Are you serious? I hope this study is from a scientifically backed University, not some quack in the backwoods somewhere.
The key to healthier people is healthy living but also preventative health care. Catching something before it becomes too serious or too late.
ArmaLite, you are making a fatal assumption: that FACTS MATTER to these people. They just make up whatever ‘facts’ they want.
How about Capitalism plus only taxing and redistributing only for things that are actually in the U.S. Constitution and leaving the states more power as granted in the 10th amendment? Is it THAT novel of an idea these days?
You have capitalism and the lowest tax rates in generations. Where are all the jobs these companies are supposed to produce? I’ll tell you where……in their record profits and bottom line.
Or “The Donald” Ugh!!
Please go to this link and sign my petition for a Balanced Budget Amendment : http://wh.gov/9PeA
This is an honest question, so please don’t take it as partisan bickering.
1% of the population controls over 40% of the financial wealth and 50% of the population controls just 2% of the financial wealth. That’s a fact.
So, if we don’t plan to tax the rich, we must be planning to eliminate social welfare programs like Social Security and Medicare.
Do Tea Party Patriots believe that these programs should be eliminated?
I also looked up welfare, but less than 1% of the nation is on welfare. There’s just not much money there, so it’s hard to believe that we are going to get it from them.
If lower taxes = more jobs, then where are the jobs?
If the rich pay more than we do, why can’t I get my total effective tax rate below 18%?
I’m an accountant with a masters degree in taxation. Perhaps there is something that I am missing.
Finally, here is what I think is wrong:
We aren’t investing in our future, because we are too focused on the past. By that I mean that we spend too much on Social Security and Medicare and not enough on education and innovation. Romney understood that.
The stock market dropped almost 500 points on Obama’s first day in office, it doubled during his first term. So, Obama oversaw the greatest period of wealth creation in American history. So why do we want him out?
Barry – have you ever been to a Tea Party rally? I was at the one in St. Louis 2010, and most of the people were senior citizens collecting Social Security and Medicare.
Look at the “Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003″ passed by George W. Bush and the Republican House and Senate. It was the biggest expansion of Medicare since it’s creation.
Below is a government link showing how the vote went down mainly party lines.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll332.xml
This movement is about religious fundamentalism, not fiscal conservatism. People who are serious about fiscal conservatism need to support Ron Paul!
No partisan bickering here. Just the facts. The first FACT is countries with a more educated population have a more even distribution of wealth than countries with a less educated population. If you want the wealth to be more evenly distributed, develop a more educated population. Your only other alternative is to steal the wealth from those that create and earn it and give it to those who do nothing to earn it.
Given that the US education system has been destroyed by liberalism and so-called “progressives”, and has been on a continuous decline for more than 40 years, and today the education system is the most expensive in the world and generates the most ignorant workforce in the world, an idiot would know that given the increasing level of ignorance of the population will result in the wealth being increasingly concentrated in a smaller percentage of the population.
… that is, every idiot but you.
You want to fix the problem?
Fix the education system.
Are you talking about the federal government when you say 1% controls 40% of the wealth?
Social Security, like any Ponzi scheme, is to the point where it stops working. Those who got in early did very well, those who got in later did OK, the baby boomers will be lucky to break even (with inflation, they probably won’t), and the young families of today? They got in too late- they’re going to get screwed big time.
Medicaid is going to crash soon too. This country (especially after the “progressives” and their Keynesian economist have “fixed” our economy too many times) just can’t generate enough wealth to pay what Medicaid is soon going to cost.
These are just facts too.
We aren’t investing in our future because the government is taking too much of our money. Talk to a young family. Ask them why they aren’t investing in their future. Or even saving for the kids college. Or saving for a down payment on a house.
Education spending, on a per pupil basis, has gone up way faster than the rate of inflation for a long time. The quality and quantity of what our children learn has gone down. Not everywhere, but certainly on average. Rates of graduation from high school are still horrible. Colleges now teach middle school subjects to students who are subsidized by taxpayers to go to college. College cost have skyrocketed.
Companies can’t afford to spend money on R&D (or build new physical plants) because our government is choking them with regulations and the highest corporate tax rates in the world.
Your “stock marked doubling” does not adjust for inflation. Real inflation, not the phony numbers the government puts out.
Obama has overseen a great period for wealth all right, but it wasn’t wealth creation, it was more like theft.
If you’re politically connected, or already rich and powerful and can get in on the bailouts and corporate welfare, under Obama, you’ve acquired more wealth than John D. Rockefeller ever dreamed of- and it was basically just handed to you by the government. Let’s talk about the handful of giant banks (all too big to fail) that the government has created, and how they “work” with the Federal Reserve to get billions (10′s of billions? 100′s of billions?) of tax dollars, for free!
“Really? The Republican Party is going to fall on its sword to defend a bunch of millionaires, half of whom voted Democratic?” -Bill Kristol
What we need is a way forward.
To anyone with any knowledge of accounting, we cannot sustain more debt. The only solution coming from the Democrats is to borrow more money, as if some other country will put the government of the United States on their welfare rolls like the government here is putting more people its welfare rolls.
The Republican leadership in Congress has been abysmally weak. They are cowards. When we needed for them to speak up strongly, they cowered and spoke nebulously. Eric Holder told them to GFY, and they cowered in their corner of the playground like weaklings.
We need a new Speaker.
We need a new Minority Leader.
NO MORE DEBT. NOT FOR ANY REASON. MAKE THE GOVERNMENT CUT WHAT IT DECIDES TO CUT TO BRING US BACK TO FISCAL SANITY.
When the social programs get their fair share of the cuts, there will be social upheaval. Those communities that have been trained to wait on the government to take from everyone else and give to them the sustenance they need will riot.
We should do nothing to stop them. After it is over, let them live in the ashes they created. Do not subsidize the rebuilding of the ruins they created. We should react to the event as if it is what it actually is – a tantrum. Let them throw it, then let them live in the mess they create. Those that want a better life will separate themselves from those who will continually throw tantrums when the government doesn’t give them everything they want.
Should we continue to placate the portion of the population that throws these tantrums, we will continue to increase the divisions among us. We are on the brink of secession in many regions. The government should make it clear to these people that they must become self-reliant. There isn’t any money to support them anymore. We need a Speaker and a Minority Leader that will say this, and draw a line in the sand.
There is no avoiding the reality that we must suffer the consequence of a reduced status in the world. It is fallacy to pretend otherwise. We cannot avoid the consequence of our enemies that are the reality in the world will become stronger as we become weaker. We must look beyond that to the future and make the decisions today necessary for us to resume our position after we solve these domestic problems that threaten our existence. More debt will only delay the resurgence we will need in the future and make it more difficult.
We need people in Congress that will stand firm on the principle that borrowing more money will only worsen our already critical situation.
The most significant threat to our existence is the debt.
We need a new Speaker.
Paul Ryan.
We need a new Minority Leader.
Mark Rubio.
If we do not develop a stronger presence in our government, this country and government will not survive. It will be replaced by the usual dictatorial oligarchies that were the norm in the world before the emergence of the United States to the apex of international influence.
Go ahead and secede…..just don’t expect ANY federal benefits…..no social.security, no vet benefits or health care, no use of Federal highways., can’t fly because you have no TSA, no protection from military when some country like Mexico.invades you. No trade with the United States.so hope you have a source for food. Don’t let the door hit you as they say.
We’ll take capitalism and the Constitution. You can have your Marxist socialism, unions and that pitiful excuse of an education system you built by destroying the finest education system in the world.
Lot’s of luck building an economy around that. You already need the part of the economy that actually turns a profit. Without it you live in hovels and eat grubs from water in the ditches along unused roads.
To tell the truth, your country will consist of New York to Maine, and that’s it. Chicago will be carved out and left to its own resources. California to Washington will be the new “Peoples Democratic Republic of Pacifica”.
Every state in the red belongs to you. And, we’re going to force the illegal aliens across the border into your Marxist socialist state where you can make them citizens.
… good luck. )))))
there’s nothing there
Craig, do you realize most folks on Medicaid are sick, that’s why they’re on Medicaid in the first place?
we need a second revolutionary war.there are people out there that just dont get that this guy in office is going to ruin our country ad give it on a silver plater to the dam ILLEGALS.
WE HAVE TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK AND NOW BEFORE OUR CULTURE AND OUR HISTORY IS DESTROYED..
Time to Chose Winning as A Strategy
Fiscal Cliff Battle
We are going to lose on this issue no matter what. The only way not to lose is let it go. A strategic retreat. It doesn’t matter because letting taxes go up will not cause a recession – we are already in one. Wait for the 4th quarter numbers they will show negative GDP.
IMO what we need to do is agree to let all “Bush” Tax cuts expire. Even if some are kept the result will be a deepening recession going into the 1st quarter of 2013. Not caused by the Tea Party, but do to the “Obama Tax Increase” and “ObamaCare Implementation”.
If Obama does not call for a cut in Taxes by 2nd Quarter it will get even worse. We will then slaughter the Progressive movement in 2014. If we are Branded as “Obstructionist” which they have been very good at doing we lose in 2014.
My point is the country is going to lose no matter what. So take it as a fact and position to win.
Anything that reduces government expenditure is a win.
Shut the government down if it can’t pay for itself. The government spends a lot less money when it’s shut down than otherwise.
If Congress can’t manage the government, then let it shut down. Nobody outside the beltway will notice… except the welfarre states. Those regions that actually make the economy work will do better if the government shuts down.
The bottom line is, the biggest threat to our existence is the debt. If the debt is increased, we become that much closer to not even being a country anymore.
NO MORE DEBT. NOT FOR ANY REASON.
Make Congress do its job and budget the government…. or, just shut the government down. A government that can’t even control its own spending does the country more harm than good, anyway.
NO MORE DEBT. NOT FOR ANY REASON.
Why is the Tea Party content with Wall Street running our Govt. ? Demonize the occupy movement as a bunch of people that are looking for handouts. but seem to be happy with the wealthy paying for laws that favor wealthy people? That seems very un American to me.
Where are the constructive activities ?? If we can help our neighbors ‘live conservative’ everyday, they will see immediate benefits and then they will be much more likely to vote conservative. The benefits of personal responsibility and individual choice are obvious in the aftermath of Hurrican Sandy. Those that prepared themselves and their families fared much better than those who simply relied on the government to take care of everything.
Our challenge is to reach out – today- to those in poverty and teach them how to ‘live conservatively’. Many who may want to simply don’t know how. Rather than yelling or preaching, we need to teach. True freedom is extraordinary. Let us help more of our neighbors experience it.
I agree Bob, This is about our country. Going back to the basics…
Let the government get out of our lives, our bedrooms, our business.
Less government means less tax.
Simplify taxes…straight taxes
Eliminate most federal jobs.
Revamp the education system, making it local and not controlled by teacher’s union.
Parents need more input into our curriculum…so it’s not one sided.
Eliminate or reduce entitlements for everyone. Not just the poor, but everyone.
It could be a weaning process…over ten or thirty years.
Eliminate congress and vote on our own bills. Instead of paying elitist career politicians.
The senate could be the check and balance.
Open to ideas to reform this country that is currently controlled by purse strings…not the people.
Eliminate Congress, huh? Could you send me the itinerary of this traveling freak show? I’d love to see you clowns in action.
Flippant elimination of so-called government waste and fraud should also include an immediate guillotine of half the military budget and the beginning of a de-fanging of the nauseating “God bless America” glorification of senseless wars and the compatriots who have died in vain. The military-industrial complex and the mentality which bolsters it is the numero uno cause of our country’s economic and moral decline. It must be on the chopping block without a blink TODAY!
Ah, but you see the elimination of military entitlements and dependency industries thereof will lead to long long unemployment lines and massive discontent. And cutting of so-called entitlement programs post haste will lead to massive, unimaginable poverty levels.
Just look to the Massachussetts drug company that Romney gave several self-policing winks and hugs to and that eventually, through such noble self-policing nods, manufactured a meningitis outbreak that has led to several deaths…and you see REAL results of letting self-regulation and market forces prevail.
Without any oversight by “onerous” governments, tobacco would still reign and seat belt laws would never have seen the light of day.
The Tea party movement must, by its nature, detach people from the consequences of their proposed policies. Most certainly, private market forces would gouch the hell out of victims’ of disasters, as well.
The Tea party and their big brother, the Republicans, see people as collateral damage of a well-intentioned principle that, in my humble opinion, should never been let out of the box.
Wean ourselves first from energy waste disease and military interventionalitis and the nation and the world will be the better for it. That’s the doctrine of practicality that holds water…not the “good will” of corporations in a laissez faire world.
Yes – eliminate entitlements for everyone! I assume that means YOU will refuse to accept one penny of social security and medicare.